How to use PP (Potassium Permanganate)

[edwardlong]

How do you use PP on your discus?

Let me start off first.

1) warning! Never over dose PP in your fishes as they can kill them really fast. (i know that as i had killed my aro and some of my prized discus. :embarrassed: )

2) I usually premix the crystals ( you can buy them from Guardian Pharmacy at $6.50 a bottle) and put them in a old shampoo bottle where i can pump them out.

3) Dosage depends very much on the organic level and also the amount of anti chlorine that is building up in the tank water. When the pink water turns brown, it means that the PP is expended and needs to be replenish.

4) i sometimes pour in strong PP into the tank just before a tank scrub if i see lot of slime on the tank wall. This is kill off all the bacteria that is causing the slime build up. Usually after this, i can see the discus breathing more regulated.

As a rule, dose till the water is very light pink for long bath (more than 6 hours)

[lei]

Good info there...
Thanks for sharing!
:big_smile:

[trident]

PP is one the most used medication for discus,
cheap and effective, just hv to be careful abt the dosage.
it can kill very fast too.

[edwardlong]

PP is one the most used medication for discus,
cheap and effective, just hv to be careful abt the dosage.
it can kill very fast too.


The worst thing about PP is how to estimate the dosage. When the tank has got surplus anti chlorine build up thru a no. of WC, it will neutralise the PP.

There was once, the light pink dosage remain for over 24 hours, and that killed one of my spotted fish. So never use PP if you are unable to monitor the fish.

[lei]

Most of the time I only use PP for short baths for my discus...
:smile:

[condor]

I used PP when I do water changing as I dont have piping system
so the draining hose have to be dipped in the PP soluation before I switch to the next tank.

Reason: to cut down the chances of spreading of disease if there is any.
:hmmm: :hmmm: :stick_out_tongue: :stick_out_tongue:

[edwardlong]

I used PP when I do water changing as I dont have piping system
so the draining hose have to be dipped in the PP soluation before I switch to the next tank.

Reason: to cut down the chances of spreading of disease if there is any.
:hmmm: :hmmm: :stick_out_tongue: :stick_out_tongue:

WOW~~!! Super careful!!!! or is it super kia su??Just kidding condor. :stick_out_tongue:

Its good to be careful, but is it necessary if all the fishes are healthy?

:big_smile:

[condor]

WOW~~!! Super careful!!!! or is it super kia su??Just kidding condor. :stick_out_tongue:

Its good to be careful, but is it necessary if all the fishes are healthy?

:big_smile:


U never know when it will happen
its better to play safe then sorry at the later stage
:confused_1: :confused_1:

[lei]

I used PP when I do water changing as I dont have piping system
so the draining hose have to be dipped in the PP soluation before I switch to the next tank.

Reason: to cut down the chances of spreading of disease if there is any.
:hmmm: :hmmm: :stick_out_tongue: :stick_out_tongue:

Wow... Some new purpose for using PP...
Well done there... :wink:

[Oscar77]

I mostly use PP to recycle tank. As for treatment for fishes, would be my last solution.

[edwardlong]

Abstract of one article i found.....


Potassium permanganate and fish disease
Potassium permanganate is a useful fish disease treatment; acting against a range of protozoan parasites including Trichodina, Costia and Chilodonella, as well as monogenean flukes Gyrodactylus (skin flukes) and Dactylogyrus (gill flukes). In addition to being an effective anti-parasite treatment, potassium permanganate can also assist with bacterial gill disease and bacterial disease such as skin ulcers. It will also oxidise dissolved organic matter, reducing the biological oxygen demand and improving water quality and clarity.

As with many disease treatments, potassium permanganate is not really a medicine. It is a caustic alkali that, at high doses, can cause serious corrosion of delicate tissues such as skin and gill. In ponds it works as an oxidising agent in a similar, although milder, fashion, to household bleach! It is a very reactive chemical, reacting with organic material.

a powerful oxidising agent

Oxygen is usually seen as a benign substance. However, oxygen atoms - as released in some oxidising reactions - are extremely reactive. One common reaction involving oxygen is fire and fireworks. A slower, but just as destructive reaction is rust, in which iron is oxidized.
All oxidising agents should be used with extreme caution - double and treble-check the pond size and calculated dosage.

During such reactions the manganate ion, MnO4- loses two oxygen atoms and is reduced to insoluble manganese dioxide MnO2. The ‘lost’ oxygen atoms react aggressively with other organic molecules, altering their structure and properties. It is these reactive properties that kill bacteria and parasites such as Costia, Trichodina and flukes.

Be careful Although it is a very useful disease treatment, its reactiveness with organic material can make it a difficult and potentially dangerous treatment to use. It will react readily with any organic matter. If the pond has any particulate organic material, such as algae, detritus, or dissolved organic compounds, then much of the oxidation reaction will take place with these organics rather than the parasites or bacteria we are targeting. For this reason potassium treatments will not be effective in green water.

More about potassium permanganate
Biological filtration systems should be isolated during treatment, as bacterial flora will be adversely affected.
Repeated treatments may result in cumulative gill damage
It is affected by sunlight, so treatments are best carried out in the evening, or on cloudy days.
It is best to give the pond a good clean and vacuum before treatment to reduce the amount of organic matter.
It is is more toxic at higher pH. In alkaline conditions a solid precipitate of manganese dioxide (MnO2) can form on gills. This can cause respiratory problems by blocking the gills. Additionally, MnO2 is a strong oxidising agent and presumably in such a situation could cause other gill-tissue damage.
Its use against bacterial gill disease has to be balanced against the possibility of further damage from the treatment. It will assist by killing bacteria and parasites in the gills. However, in such situations the gills are often swollen and congested and if a manganate precipitate does form on the gills it could push the fish over the top. This is more likely in alkaline conditions. It would not be my first treatment of choice for this condition unless there were serious parasite complications.
It should not be mixed with formalin as this produces toxic formaldehyde gas.
It can be neutralized by adding hydrogen peroxide. A recommended level of one litre of 3% hydrogen peroxide (mixed in 10 litres of pond water) will deactivate 20,000 litres of treated pond water. I have been using just 150 mls. of 9% hydrogen peroxide (available from drug stores) per 20,000 litres pond water to neutralise remaining potassium permanganate residues at the conclusion of treatments. This quickly clears the murky brown water, leaving the pond crystal clear. If too much hydrogen peroxide is used the unreacted residue action may prevent further potassium treatments for a day or two, so it is best to only use hydrogen peroxide at the conclusion of a treatment. If the water gets too murky between treatments (as would happen with a high organic content), hydrogen peroxide could be used to clear the water but it would be advisable to do a good water change before continuing treatments.
It is effective against smaller ectoparasites such as Costia, Trichodina and Chilodonella however its effectiveness against larger parasites such Gyrodactylus (skin flukes) and Dactylogyrus (gill flukes) is dosage dependent. At residual doses below 1.5 mg/litre, treatments against flukes are not likely to be effective. Short-term bath treatments at higher doses are liable to be more successful.
It can be a useful support treatment when treating bacterial ulcers; first by reducing any parasite load and secondly by reducing both the organic content of the water and the bacteria levels. Although it will assist in the healing process, it will not, on its own, cure ulcers.
Wear gloves when using potassium permanganate as it will quickly react with the skin leaving a nice deep brown colour that looks as if you smoke about 100 a day!

Dosages:
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/webart/green%20square.gifPond or tank treatments: residual 1.75 mg / litre. Effective against bacteria and parasites (not larger parasites such as Lernaea or Argulus ). Can be repeated every 2-3 days – maximum 3 treatments.
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/webart/green%20square.gifShort term baths: Effective against bacteria and parasites (not larger parasites such as Lernaea or Argulus ). Can be repeated daily. Maximum 5 treatments.
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/webart/green%20square.gifDips: - 20 mg / litre for 20 seconds. Said to be effective against Lernaea or Argulus Dips can also assist in stubborn parasite cases. Only use as a last resort.