Oscar77
09-01-2007, 05:04 PM
Raising and Culling Discus Fry
by Cary Strong (www.greatlakesdiscus.com), Jan 2006
When breeding and raising fry for the first time You may not notice most defects at first! However when they start to grow larger size, you will notice more Defects that were not seen when small. After You have Raised a few discus spawns You will learn how to spot the defective fry with greater speed and efficiency. Here I will show you what to look for and soon you will be spotting culls with ease and not wasting resources on growing them out.
First lets raise some fry keep them eating and growing and from there we Can do some culling. For the most part Baby discus spawns can be Very healthy or Very poor even before they are pulled from the parents. If Your fry are Very healthy all are uniform in size at 2 weeks. If this is the case we can say that water quality is up to par, we could also rule out Disease or heavy parasite infestation, uniform fry size also shows us All the fry are getting enough Food. If this is the case pulling the fry and moving them to a new tank of the same water parameters of the breeding tank Should be a piece of cake! The only thing I would do now is to raise the heat up to 88F. I like to heat treat any discus that are moved and believe it is very important and helpful to the discus ASAP! While adults do not like to be warm, fry grow better and eat more food with the higher metabolism warmer water conditions give.
If there is a range of sizes within the spawn or You notice large eyes size for the body My first guess would Be Not enough food! Many make this mistake their first time around unaware of just how much the fry can eat. Other reasons that effect growth are things we need to look out for before we start breeding or it could be a long waste of time and money. So if You believe Your fry are getting enough food and still not eating or growing well My second choice would be Water Quality. Small discus fry are very sensitive to toxins in the water and you need to know that water quality is off the highest importance when breeding and raising quality discus fry.
If water quality is at its best and the fry are getting enough food for proper growth, then we have to consider the possibility of disease and/or parasite infestation, but only AFTER we have ruled out water and food conditions! It is IMPE that if discus fry are fed enough food and water Quality is up to par, most discus fry will fight off most gill and body flukes and other external and internal Parasites without any ill effects Its only when we stress them with poor water Quality Cramped tanks and poor feedings is when the Parasite or Disease grab hold and cause us problems. Now if infestations are heavy on fry that are ready to be moved from the parents You might see some signs of stress after the fact and treatment may be needed.
Now one bigger problem and believe it or not your baby discus can have a hidden Bacteria! And again believe me some are very hard to notice even on adults! However it is very likely and very common that any kind of fish even discus can live in harmony with this problem without showing signs, bacterias are all around us all the time, in the water we drink, in the food we eat, and on our discus! However in some cases after the fry are pulled from the parents and moved to a new tank they slowly start to stress one by one breaking down and finally refuse to eat. The bacteria that previously lived in harmony with our fishes has now found a new area to grow and will take advantage of the fries weakened immune system caused by stress. If this is the case its best to cull them all at once! Most baby discus will not last more then a week without food and also do not respond well to treatments at their size, and in the event that your treatment was able to save the fry they will have lost a lot of ground and are doomed to grow with defects such as pointy shape and small adult size.
So Lets say All is well babies are thriving after being moved and growing like weeds and eating up everything and anything around the clock. Thats what a baby discus should do Right? Right on!
Ok now we can start culling removing unwanted fry. I like to start culling around 3weeks to 1month some of the things I look for are chipped Eyes! This means the eye is not fully round and may have a half moon shape to it or just chunks missing. Another thing to look out for that happens to the eyes are small pupil on left side and a big pupil on the right. this one is hard to catch at first and can be seen when viewing the discus head on.
Also there are a few rare ones like missing body parts! missing pelvic fin or fins,missing eyes or eye, curved spine, missing gill plates, top of the back or head missing AKA (saddlle back)
There are also very easy ones that you may catch when very small. Everyone has a name for them and I call mine sliders. Basically they can appear in all fish spawns salt and fresh water! All they do is slide around the bottom like little race cars all day!. They never grow too much and never learn to swim. This is because their swim bladders have never inflated properly when born.
Now Remember You must also worry about The Environment! Before they are on the cone and long after they hatch. Many of the things I mentioned above Are caused by the Environment not genetics. This would mean WATER QUALITY or WATER TEMP. If water temp is to high it could cause the fry to develop to fast causing many defects on body parts. As for water Quality goes toxins in the water will likely cause the same. Also the higher the ph when breeding discus will intensify the toxins of any sort causing a high %tage of damage and high %tage of culls. The most common in this case would be dorsal defects in the hard ray area.
IME a genetic cull is one with poor shape, size and color under my care. I would also include broken bars + bad eyes and missy rays in the dorsal area. However What I cull You my not! so its really up to the breeder on Their taste and style for body shape and size.
In time you will learn to spot these defects with ease, then only with experience you will be able to spot not only the culls but ALSO the environmental conditions/illness that may have created them.
So please practice, cull, and correct! It should be the breeder's highest priority when raising discus, weather for hobby or profit, Then you will truly be a master breeder!
by Cary Strong (www.greatlakesdiscus.com), Jan 2006
When breeding and raising fry for the first time You may not notice most defects at first! However when they start to grow larger size, you will notice more Defects that were not seen when small. After You have Raised a few discus spawns You will learn how to spot the defective fry with greater speed and efficiency. Here I will show you what to look for and soon you will be spotting culls with ease and not wasting resources on growing them out.
First lets raise some fry keep them eating and growing and from there we Can do some culling. For the most part Baby discus spawns can be Very healthy or Very poor even before they are pulled from the parents. If Your fry are Very healthy all are uniform in size at 2 weeks. If this is the case we can say that water quality is up to par, we could also rule out Disease or heavy parasite infestation, uniform fry size also shows us All the fry are getting enough Food. If this is the case pulling the fry and moving them to a new tank of the same water parameters of the breeding tank Should be a piece of cake! The only thing I would do now is to raise the heat up to 88F. I like to heat treat any discus that are moved and believe it is very important and helpful to the discus ASAP! While adults do not like to be warm, fry grow better and eat more food with the higher metabolism warmer water conditions give.
If there is a range of sizes within the spawn or You notice large eyes size for the body My first guess would Be Not enough food! Many make this mistake their first time around unaware of just how much the fry can eat. Other reasons that effect growth are things we need to look out for before we start breeding or it could be a long waste of time and money. So if You believe Your fry are getting enough food and still not eating or growing well My second choice would be Water Quality. Small discus fry are very sensitive to toxins in the water and you need to know that water quality is off the highest importance when breeding and raising quality discus fry.
If water quality is at its best and the fry are getting enough food for proper growth, then we have to consider the possibility of disease and/or parasite infestation, but only AFTER we have ruled out water and food conditions! It is IMPE that if discus fry are fed enough food and water Quality is up to par, most discus fry will fight off most gill and body flukes and other external and internal Parasites without any ill effects Its only when we stress them with poor water Quality Cramped tanks and poor feedings is when the Parasite or Disease grab hold and cause us problems. Now if infestations are heavy on fry that are ready to be moved from the parents You might see some signs of stress after the fact and treatment may be needed.
Now one bigger problem and believe it or not your baby discus can have a hidden Bacteria! And again believe me some are very hard to notice even on adults! However it is very likely and very common that any kind of fish even discus can live in harmony with this problem without showing signs, bacterias are all around us all the time, in the water we drink, in the food we eat, and on our discus! However in some cases after the fry are pulled from the parents and moved to a new tank they slowly start to stress one by one breaking down and finally refuse to eat. The bacteria that previously lived in harmony with our fishes has now found a new area to grow and will take advantage of the fries weakened immune system caused by stress. If this is the case its best to cull them all at once! Most baby discus will not last more then a week without food and also do not respond well to treatments at their size, and in the event that your treatment was able to save the fry they will have lost a lot of ground and are doomed to grow with defects such as pointy shape and small adult size.
So Lets say All is well babies are thriving after being moved and growing like weeds and eating up everything and anything around the clock. Thats what a baby discus should do Right? Right on!
Ok now we can start culling removing unwanted fry. I like to start culling around 3weeks to 1month some of the things I look for are chipped Eyes! This means the eye is not fully round and may have a half moon shape to it or just chunks missing. Another thing to look out for that happens to the eyes are small pupil on left side and a big pupil on the right. this one is hard to catch at first and can be seen when viewing the discus head on.
Also there are a few rare ones like missing body parts! missing pelvic fin or fins,missing eyes or eye, curved spine, missing gill plates, top of the back or head missing AKA (saddlle back)
There are also very easy ones that you may catch when very small. Everyone has a name for them and I call mine sliders. Basically they can appear in all fish spawns salt and fresh water! All they do is slide around the bottom like little race cars all day!. They never grow too much and never learn to swim. This is because their swim bladders have never inflated properly when born.
Now Remember You must also worry about The Environment! Before they are on the cone and long after they hatch. Many of the things I mentioned above Are caused by the Environment not genetics. This would mean WATER QUALITY or WATER TEMP. If water temp is to high it could cause the fry to develop to fast causing many defects on body parts. As for water Quality goes toxins in the water will likely cause the same. Also the higher the ph when breeding discus will intensify the toxins of any sort causing a high %tage of damage and high %tage of culls. The most common in this case would be dorsal defects in the hard ray area.
IME a genetic cull is one with poor shape, size and color under my care. I would also include broken bars + bad eyes and missy rays in the dorsal area. However What I cull You my not! so its really up to the breeder on Their taste and style for body shape and size.
In time you will learn to spot these defects with ease, then only with experience you will be able to spot not only the culls but ALSO the environmental conditions/illness that may have created them.
So please practice, cull, and correct! It should be the breeder's highest priority when raising discus, weather for hobby or profit, Then you will truly be a master breeder!