Ph & aquariums

[sandeepR]

Hi all
I would like to share my understanding of "Ph". correct me if i am wrong

“PH” stands for pondous Hydrogenii (weight of hydrogen).
Chemically water is made up of H (Hydrogen) & O (Oxygen).
Its chemical formula is H2O, this consists of H+(Hydrogen ions) and OH- (hydroxyl ions).
Note the “+” and “-“ signs above, a “+” attracts “-“ and repels “+”.
When “H+” and “OH-“ meet they form “H2O”.
Pure water contains nearly identical number of H+ & OH- ions and is said to be neutral. There is a diff of one in ten million or 10-7 between the two ions in pure water.
This is also represented as Log10[10-7]. Hence we say that pure water has ph of “7”.
Now when we mix different items in pure water the number of H+ and OH- changes.
If the concentration of H+ ion increases the ph falls and solution becomes acidic, and if the number of H+ ion drops the solution becomes alkaline.
Now we come to another important term “buffering capacity”.
Take a hypothetical example, if we start with pure distilled water and say add 5 ml of acid the acidity will change by “5”, but the water we use is not distilled and always has some minerals dissolved. In our aquarium or tap water when we add 5 ml of acid the ph will acidity will change by only 3 or 4, this is called buffering capacity of solution.
This is also a reason why RO water (reverse osmosis) is never used in aquariums, as it has no buffering capacity the ph swings are very violent.
Now I come to why pH should not be fiddled with.
Metabolisms in fishes are very closely tied with ph of their surroundings. A sudden change will trigger a shock and weak specimens will die, even healthy ones have a problem in adapting to it.
Most of literature I have read says that a “stable ph” is more important than “ideal ph”.
If you are buying fish from your local store, your ph and your ph will be more or less identical and when you acclimatize fish to your tank you take away that shock.
Hope it helps

[Mystique]

Thanks for sharing this input. Certainly enriching and allow me to disgest and will share my side of inputs.:wink:

[edwardlong]

Hey sandeepR,

Its only monday... you are making my head dizzy with all the chemistry talk. :stick_out_tongue:

Thanks for sharing. We need someone like you around to help us with water.

:smile:

[SniperY]

So that meant we have to test our water frequently to ensure that our aquarium water is always maintain at OH- , so maybe can you share with us how you maintain at this level?

[sandeepR]

Ph changes with various processes in aquariums, fishes breathing, plants photosynthis etc.
However when we do water changes we restore the ph of aquarium at somewhere near ph of our source water. This is one of the reasons where infrequent large changes are not done as it will alter ph significantly.
I don't believe in fiddiling with ph, unless it is for a dediciated biotope tank, and even in that case, the ph of water is gradually altered, also at water change time and same precautions are followed as in a marine tank.
I keep my tanks at ph of my source water.

[SniperY]

Ph changes with various processes in aquariums, fishes breathing, plants photosynthis etc.
However when we do water changes we restore the ph of aquarium at somewhere near ph of our source water. This is one of the reasons where infrequent large changes are not done as it will alter ph significantly.
I don't believe in fiddiling with ph, unless it is for a dediciated biotope tank, and even in that case, the ph of water is gradually altered, also at water change time and same precautions are followed as in a marine tank.
I keep my tanks at ph of my source water.So are you trying to say that frequently perform water change will prevent a big change in PH and keep the fish healthy? Correct me if i'm wrong, interesting topic to discuss
:big_smile:

[Aquarian]

what he is saying is to avoid water change of large quantity, it is obvious that frequent water change of smaller quantity is better than infrequent water change of large quantity, this is because in case there is a drastic change in the pH of your water source it will alter the pH of your tank water, hence pH shock to your fishes

So are you trying to say that frequently perform water change will prevent a big change in PH and keep the fish healthy? Correct me if i'm wrong, interesting topic to discuss
:big_smile:

[SniperY]

what he is saying is to avoid water change of large quantity, it is obvious that frequent water change of smaller quantity is better than infrequent water change of large quantity, this is because in case there is a drastic change in the pH of your water source it will alter the pH of your tank water, hence pH shock to your fishesOf cos i know to avoid water change of large quantity lah, you think I'm L88k ah?!!!!

[Aquarian]

then why you still ask him that question if you already understood??? :crying:

Of cos i know to avoid water change of large quantity lah, you think I'm L88k ah?!!!!

[Oscar77]

Most of literature I have read says that a “stable ph” is more important than “ideal ph”.

Well said.

[Aquarian]

the water in Yishun is really high 8.2, now the pH in my aro tank also like that, did not lower it

[edwardlong]

I have kept discus in pH of 4.5 for months and giving me very good growth and health. Most books would recommend a pH of 6-7 for discus.

[Aquarian]

what is the pH of the tap water in your area, bro?

I have kept discus in pH of 4.5 for months and giving me very good growth and health. Most books would recommend a pH of 6-7 for discus.

[SniperY]

then why you still ask him that question if you already understood??? :crying:Read properly my dear bro, i only said change water frequently, and all the while i never say big qualitity of water change, of course everyone know that 100% WC have to be avoid because of drastic change of water ph, therefore my question is does frequently doing of wc is the same as just like doing a 100% wc?????
:huh: :confused_1:

[sandeepR]

I have kept discus in pH of 4.5 for months and giving me very good growth and health. Most books would recommend a pH of 6-7 for discus.

Many authors give specifications of wild habitats of fish, while these specification will hold true for wild caught fish, they will not be true for bred fish.
Many of fishes in our hobby are bred for generations in conditions different from their native envoirnment, over a period of time these fish get accustomed to water of their breeder.
Hence it would be better for us to ask the fishshop the ph of their water, and in most cases it would be same as that of our tap water.
Heiko Blehr is one of the foremost collector of wild discus, in one of his recent articles he has said that in one particular river in amazon forest where he collected discus,the water was so acidic that even mosquitos were not breeding in that water.

[sandeepR]

So are you trying to say that frequently perform water change will prevent a big change in PH and keep the fish healthy? Correct me if i'm wrong, interesting topic to discuss
:big_smile:

That is correct, frequent small changes of water are better than infrequent large changes of water.
In addition to to danger of ph change, over a period of time alleochemicals, growth hindering hormeones are built up. They also get diluted due to water changes.
In fact even the need of filter can be done away with frequent water changes, although I do not recommend it, as filter has other tasks than taking out impurites of water.
My pond does not have filter or aerator of any type, even then the water is crystal clear and mollies are breeding like hell. I simply overflow the pond everyday for 5-10 minutes and that takes care of everything

[edwardlong]

what is the pH of the tap water in your area, bro?

Around pH 7-7.2

[Aquarian]

it depends on the amount of water u change, for example changing 10 litre per day each day is better than changing 70 litre per week, i am sure you already know that.

Read properly my dear bro, i only said change water frequently, and all the while i never say big qualitity of water change, of course everyone know that 100% WC have to be avoid because of drastic change of water ph, therefore my question is does frequently doing of wc is the same as just like doing a 100% wc?????
:huh: :confused_1:

[Aquarian]

quite interesting about the wild discus, sukriya

Many authors give specifications of wild habitats of fish, while these specification will hold true for wild caught fish, they will not be true for bred fish.
Many of fishes in our hobby are bred for generations in conditions different from their native envoirnment, over a period of time these fish get accustomed to water of their breeder.
Hence it would be better for us to ask the fishshop the ph of their water, and in most cases it would be same as that of our tap water.
Heiko Blehr is one of the foremost collector of wild discus, in one of his recent articles he has said that in one particular river in amazon forest where he collected discus,the water was so acidic that even mosquitos were not breeding in that water.

[SniperY]

it depends on the amount of water u change, for example changing 10 litre per day each day is better than changing 70 litre per week, i am sure you already know that.What to do bro, we can't afford to do that right??? So have to depends on our filteration system lor
:embarrassed:

[SniperY]

I have kept discus in pH of 4.5 for months and giving me very good growth and health. Most books would recommend a pH of 6-7 for discus.Bro, so are you recommending to maintain such ph for discus keeping???? Right now my side the ph is on the high side about 7.5-8
:huh:

[edwardlong]

eh...not saying that discus must be kept in 4.5 pH. All i am saying is that discus can be kept in a wide pH value and no longer that picky. Most of my juvs are raised in pH value of over 7 as their water are changed 100% everyday.

However, i have heard that fishes turn very dark when the tap water pH is above 7.8. This is why some professional discus shop

[SniperY]

eh...not saying that discus must be kept in 4.5 pH. All i am saying is that discus can be kept in a wide pH value and no longer that picky. Most of my juvs are raised in pH value of over 7 as their water are changed 100% everyday.

However, i have heard that fishes turn very dark when the tap water pH is above 7.8. This is why some professional discus shopOIC, well it quite true that nowaday as compare to last time, now discus is more hardy and not really so particular about ph liao
:big_smile:

[Aquarian]

bro, my water is 8.2, discus did not turn dark :stick_out_tongue:

eh...not saying that discus must be kept in 4.5 pH. All i am saying is that discus can be kept in a wide pH value and no longer that picky. Most of my juvs are raised in pH value of over 7 as their water are changed 100% everyday.

However, i have heard that fishes turn very dark when the tap water pH is above 7.8. This is why some professional discus shop

[SniperY]

bro, my water is 8.2, discus did not turn dark :stick_out_tongue:Wow! Your side the ph is higer than mine
:huh:

[sandeepR]

bro, my water is 8.2, discus did not turn dark :stick_out_tongue:

That is quiet a high ph:hmmm:
What other fishes do you have, what are water other parameters.
I always thought that ph over 8 is not safe for tropical fishes.
This just shows the amazing adaptablity of living things.

[Aquarian]

ya, dunno why, think i better calibrate my pH pen which i haven't done since i bought it

Wow! Your side the ph is higer than mine
:huh:

[Aquarian]

discus, gold fish, red hook, arowana, new guinea tiger

That is quiet a high ph:hmmm:
What other fishes do you have, what are water other parameters.
I always thought that ph over 8 is not safe for tropical fishes.
This just shows the amazing adaptablity of living things.

[SniperY]

ya, dunno why, think i better calibrate my pH pen which i haven't done since i bought itYa, i think you should lah!

[PhanX]

is it true that when u put salt in a tank for a flowerhorn, it is good for the fish? and does salt bring the pH up?

what about crushed coral? does that bring the pH up??

[poseidon]

is it true that when u put salt in a tank for a flowerhorn, it is good for the fish? and does salt bring the pH up?

what about crushed coral? does that bring the pH up??

Salt will lower the PH, put in alittle will do.

Corals don't really rinse PH, used PH plus buffer.

[PhanX]

Salt will lower the PH, put in alittle will do.

Corals don't really rinse PH, used PH plus buffer.

is it true that when u put salt in a tank for a flowerhorn, it is good for the fish? and does salt bring the pH up?

what about crushed coral? does that bring the pH up??


ya i have a 25gallon tank and i only put in 1 table spoon of salt every water change. i read on a site that its supposed to make the FH feel more comfortable..

what is PH plus buffer? is it kind of like a water conditioner where u can buy in a bottle and just put drops in ur water? :confused_1:

[poseidon]

another type is in powder form. i think its is better.

[PhanX]

i c.. thank u very much

but how can i tell how much pH is in my water??

[poseidon]

you can always use a PH test pen or a PH test kit, you shall be able to get these at your nearest fish aquarium.

[SniperY]

Remember to calibrate it before use